Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

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Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby shineyorkboy » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:01 am

Here's my take on a pure Dishonor deck for the new game. I've had a fairly good run with it so far. Figured I'd get the community's input on it.

stronghold (1)
1x Shiro Nishiyama

role (1)
1x Keeper of Earth

province (5)
1x Shameful Display
1x Meditations on the Tao
1x Ancestral Lands
1x Rally to the Cause
1x Before the Throne

holding (8)
3x Imperial Storehouse
2x Funeral Pyre
1x Karada District
2x Iron Mine

dynasty character (32)
3x Intimidating Hida
2x Hida Guardian
3x Hida Kisada
3x Keeper Initiate
3x Steadfast Witch Hunter
3x Kaiu Envoy
3x Vanguard Warrior
3x Shrewd Yasuki
3x Kaiu Shuichi
3x Miya Satoshi
3x Hiruma Yōjimbō

event (27)
3x Banzai!
2x Assassination
3x Court Games
3x Charge!
3x Backhanded Compliment
3x Policy Debate
3x Levy
2x Rebuild
2x A Fate Worse Than Death
3x The Mountain Does Not Fall

attachment (7)
3x Watch Commander
2x Ornate Fan
2x Fine Katana

conflict character (6)
3x Hiruma Skirmisher
3x Goblin Sneak
Kolat * Merchant * Tactician * Loyal * The Poet Crab * The John Paul Jones of Rokugan
Hida Keigo @ WC III
Kasuga Aizawa @ WC IV
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby HidaHayabusa » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:39 am

How's the economy? How are you able to play A Fate Worse than death, with those costs in the dynasty and conflict? Also, have you tried this against clans with access to counterspells?

If the bidding plan is 1-2 every turn (since I don't see any other way of consistently pinging honor points), how are you able to keep up with the pressure? 6 of your cards (Compliment and Levy) are useless in battle, so you will need some help to win battles.

In general, as I wrote in an another thread about Crab dishonor, I've found that the Unicorn splash is much much better for dishonor than the Scorpion splash. You get Spyglass, access to Cloud the mind through Wayfinders, and Talisman to force breaks on the Throne. But the important point is that if a Spyglass lives to tell the tale, you can always bid one, and end up drawing 3+ cards per turn.
Crab Clan * Mojomaker * Tactical Loyalist * Slightly Kolat * Almost Jade Hand * Officially Elite * House Mormont * Dothraki * exp.6
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby shineyorkboy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:32 am

The economy's fine. Past turn 1 the issues usually, 'Crap I have nothing to spend all this money on' more than anything.

Most of my recent games have been against Crane and Phoenix with some of the Phoenix splashing Scorpion for Forged. In my experience 8 times out of 10 Crane don't have enough honored guys on the field for their event cancel to be relevant. Censure is probably the worst since it's inconsistent enough that you don't expect it to be run so when you see it it's annoying. Forged at least makes someone dishonor. Overall I think you just need to be aware that it's a possibility and roll with it when it happens.

You keep up pressure with Ring of Air, undefended attacks, and dishonored guys leaving play. It all adds up.

Since you aren't as interested in breaking provinces I don't know as you need to win battles so much. Your opponent over committing to defense is often just as good.

I think the card draw I already have is sufficient for my needs. I can usually do well with relatively small hand sizes. Even with six shugenja I think Cloud is to inconsistent. And intentionally getting your own provinces broken is typically a bad idea.
Kolat * Merchant * Tactician * Loyal * The Poet Crab * The John Paul Jones of Rokugan
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby HidaHayabusa » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:48 am

shineyorkboy wrote: And intentionally getting your own provinces broken is typically a bad idea.


So why are you running Before the Throne?

Also I fail to see what's different between your turn 2 and turn 1 economy-wise. Are you hoarding fate turn 1 and then having 10+ fate on turn 2? I mean, why you don't have enough stuff to spend your money after turn 1?

Still don't get the bidding plan on this. If you are chasing the dishonor win through Ring of Air and unopposed conflicts (and Levy+Backhanded for the final pings), wouldn't that need some form of board control (WotC/Mono no Aware/+1 Assassination)

Last point that I missed, how do you handle Phoenix and Dragons with no Way of the Crab? Have you missed it at all?
Crab Clan * Mojomaker * Tactical Loyalist * Slightly Kolat * Almost Jade Hand * Officially Elite * House Mormont * Dothraki * exp.6
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby shineyorkboy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 am

That's more of a 'in case it breaks anyway' sort of thing. Grated the only times it's been broken intentionally they were attacking Air to negate the loss or Dragon with Pathfinder Blade.

Turn 1 you typically buy a 3+ with 2 Fate and maybe a Kaiu Envoy if you see one. And since there's no fate on rings you're desperate for every scrap you can get. But turn 2 you've already got board presence so you can be a bit more relaxed in your dynasty buying and if you have a turn with a lot of holdings/second copy uniques it can add up.

For control you've got Ring of Void and Meditations. Maybe Fire if they have a lot of fate and high glory.

Sure Phoenix can be a pain with Ring of Water and Dragon if they've got a Niten Master and a hand full of weapons, but you can work around them. As for WotC, I've missed running my full bleed copies but as far as game play I've been fine without them.
Kolat * Merchant * Tactician * Loyal * The Poet Crab * The John Paul Jones of Rokugan
Hida Keigo @ WC III
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby HidaHayabusa » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:10 am

I hear you about WotC. There are people that claim that they can't live without 3 copies, and there are people that claim that it's almost useless. I tend to agree with the second group, since the clans that don't swarm, tend to have ways to cancel it (counters, reprieves, Iron mines, Keepers). Also in an era of Policy Debate, holding onto a card to use in a proper situation is very risky.

Speaking of Policy Debate, have you tried it?
Crab Clan * Mojomaker * Tactical Loyalist * Slightly Kolat * Almost Jade Hand * Officially Elite * House Mormont * Dothraki * exp.6
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby shineyorkboy » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 am

It's in the list. It can be hard to pull off given our low Pol scores, but when it's good it's really good.
Kolat * Merchant * Tactician * Loyal * The Poet Crab * The John Paul Jones of Rokugan
Hida Keigo @ WC III
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby HidaHayabusa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:02 am

I missed it, sorry. Yes, it's so good when it works, but since it's a bit tough to make it to work I went down to 2.
Crab Clan * Mojomaker * Tactical Loyalist * Slightly Kolat * Almost Jade Hand * Officially Elite * House Mormont * Dothraki * exp.6
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Re: Nu Crab Dishonor, with Scorpion Splash

Postby shineyorkboy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 am

Okay, so I've made some changes to the list.

Cut Before the Throne for Fertile Fields. BtT just wasn't working like I'd hoped and I generally find myself in need of cards more often than I am in need of fate so that's why no Manicured Garden.

Cut the two Funeral Pyres for a third Iron Mine and The Imperial Palace since denying your opponent the Imperial Favor can be very important.

Cut Policy Debate and Levy down to 2x each and added 2x of Calling in Favors to add some additional attachment hate to Karada District.
Kolat * Merchant * Tactician * Loyal * The Poet Crab * The John Paul Jones of Rokugan
Hida Keigo @ WC III
Kasuga Aizawa @ WC IV
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